BITE BY BITE | Honest Conversations About Eating Disorder Recovery

A Necessary Conversation about Eating Disorders in Males with Eric Pothen

• Kaitlyn Moresi • Season 1 • Episode 13

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Welcome back to the Bite by Bite Podcast.

Recent research shows that eating disorder rates in males are increasing at a faster rate as compared to females, according to the National Eating Disorder Association (NEDA).

In this episode, join Kait and episode guest Eric Pothen as he shares his personal journey of living with and recovering from an eating disorder as a male and the unique challenges he faced in recovery. Together Kait and Eric discuss the societal misconceptions surrounding male eating disorders, the importance of community support, and the need for more male representation in the treatment space. 

The episode emphasizes the significance of seeking professional help and encourages men to embrace their experiences and seek support. The conversation highlights the hope for the future as more men begin to share their stories and advocate for change in the perception of eating disorders.

Episode topics:

  • Understanding eating disorders in men (3:32)
  • Eric speaks about the isolation of male recovery (10:45)
  • Gender norms and their impact on speaking out (13:49)
  • Challenges in recovery for males (16:48)
  • The under representation of males in eating disorder recovery treatment (20:28)
  • Misconceptions relating to males and eating disorders (23:59)
  • The importance of empowerment and advocacy (25:55)
  • The future direction of male eating disorder awareness (27:59)
  • The lack of education specific to eating disorders for medical providers (30:55)
  • Eric suggests how to create a safe space for men (33:36)
  • The importance of embracing vulnerability and sharing your story (37:23)
  • Kait and Eric share their hopes for future eating disorder awareness (44:56)

Content Warning: This episode contains brief mentions of eating disorder behaviors that Kait has previously engaged in. Please listen in a way that feels safe for you and your recovery.

Episode Guest:
Eric Pothen is an eating disorder advocate who serves on the Peer Council for the National Eating Disorders Association (NEDA) and the Community Engagement Committee for the National Association of Anorexia Nervosa and Associated Disorders (ANAD). After struggling with an eating disorder for several years, Eric now uses his lived experience to raise awareness and support others on their recovery journeys, particularly around eating disorders, disordered eating, and body image — with a special focus on men. He is the founder of the apparel company Embrace Wear and host of the podcast Embracing You, both dedicated to helping others embrace themselves and discover beauty and self-worth from within. Eric is currently pursuing a degree in Counseling with the goal of becoming an eating disorder therapist, specializing in working with men and the LGBTQ+ community.

Connect with Kait
@bitebybiterecovery
bitebybiterecovery@gmail.com

Connect with Eric

@ericpothen 

Eric’s website 

Embracing You

National Eating Disorders Association (NEDA)

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UNKNOWN:

🎵🎵

SPEAKER_03:

Hey there, and welcome to Bite by Bite, the podcast that takes you step-by-step through the messy, beautiful, and real journey of my struggle with an eating disorder and my recovery. I'm Kate, and I'm here to share my experiences, lessons, and the wisdom I've gathered along the way. Here, I share it all. The raw, the real, and the uncensored, so those who can relate know they're not alone in the tough moments. And for those of you who haven't battled an eating disorder, your attention Thank you so much for listening. Okay, so I'm here with Eric and I'm so excited to have him on the podcast. This is my first male guest, Eric. So to get started, why don't you just start by telling the listeners who you are?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Eric Pothen. I currently live in the good old state of Minnesota with the long O as we always like to say. I was a middle school choir teacher for seven years, and I chose to take a step away from the classroom a number of years ago. Most of that was actually influenced by me choosing to share my story of living with an eating disorder and diving into the space of advocacy work and just feeling such a strong pull and push to enter into that space, and so I got my certification to be an eating disorder recovery coach, and I've been doing that now for a number of years, and And I actually am currently in school to become a therapist, to work with those who have eating disorders.

SPEAKER_03:

So you're busy. Yes. Very busy, but that's good. Kudos to you for recovering and also channeling that negative experience to something positive. I can definitely relate to that. So your journey was kind of, you struggled with an eating disorder, recovering, now you're here, but... How was living with an eating disorder as a male like and then getting into, okay, I need to do something about this. I need to recover.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So one of the most interesting things I think about when I think about my story often is when I was living with my eating disorder, I never once considered myself having an eating disorder. I don't want to get too far ahead of myself because I think we'll be talking about it later. But, you know, I just was under the impression that, you know, men just don't have eating disorders. You know, when you think about those who are affected by eating disorders, you know, women and females typically are the first gender to enter into one's mind. And so for me, my eating disorder developed shortly after I graduated from college. I was, that was a big life transition for me. And I think my eating disorder formed as a for me to cope with a lot of the stress and anxiety surrounding that big life transition and so when I was living with my eating disorder I struggled a lot with you know restriction I lived with anorexia for a number of years and really was restricting over exercising a lot of that but my behaviors were normalized in a way with my increased levels of movement and And it got to the point where I started to lose so much weight where my parents and my friends started to make comments of, are you okay? You know, and I just played it off of like, yeah, I'm just running more. I'm working out more. I'm fine. And, you know, those comments kept coming pretty frequently. And then it got to the point where my parents had finally pulled me aside one day when I was with them and they were just so distraught and they said Eric like we are worried about you if you don't start to gain weight we're going to schedule a doctor's appointment for you and I think that was kind of like my oh you know what moment because I was like okay maybe this is something bigger than I have been imagining in my head right when I was living with it I was like this is just this is normal right where you kind of get in that

SPEAKER_02:

yeah I mean like everyone would This

SPEAKER_00:

is like, this sucks, but whatever. my mind goes to, okay, they're going to make me gain weight that I tried so hard to lose, right? And the other option was, or I can choose to gain weight on my own. And so I chose the latter, and it was a rocky, bumpy road to get me to where I am today. But it was just so messy, and I would never recommend folks to try to recover on their own and to always seek that professional help um but yeah that was kind of that turning moment for me as my parents had told me either you gain weight or we schedule you that doctor's appointment

SPEAKER_03:

so prior to you thinking okay i either go to the doctors and they tell me you need to gain weight or i do it on my own at that point were you finally admitting to yourself like okay like maybe i do have an eating disorder or were you just kind of like i'm just gonna do it on my own? Like, how did you know that you actually had to do it, I guess?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think there was part of me that knew deep down that what I was struggling with was an eating disorder. But I think there was a lot of shame and guilt surrounding, I think, the naming and acknowledging of that's what it was that I was struggling with. You know, I think that for a number of reasons. One, I think gender being Right? Of being male and, you know, coming to terms with the fact that he's living with an eating disorder. And I think the other big mind block for me in all of this was, I think, just perfectionism and the views I had of myself as someone who, you know, doesn't struggle and needed to like have this strong exterior. And so I think for me, there was a level of vulnerability that me admitting I was struggling with something would therefore change the way people viewed me.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I can relate to that. And it's also hard too with everything that you just said. And then you pair that with over-exercising and people, and not even people, society. Exercise is good. Exercise is healthy. Exercise is positive in all ways. so then it turns into kind of like oh am I doing something wrong am I sick you don't know because even though you might think okay yeah I'm struggling but why am I being praised for it then I must not be struggling

SPEAKER_00:

yes and that was the most interesting thing and I should say it is the most interesting thing to think back about for me in my own journey and you know I think for men in particular with with where diet culture is today you know they're very much so is this pressure for you know both men and women to have their bodies look a certain way but for some reason men in the space of movement like it's never questioned that they're either working out too much or not eating enough right it's it's the language too that's immersed within you know i think the space of movement and and men and not to stereotype or generalize but like when you think about bulking and cutting right those behaviors are very common amongst men who are bodybuilders and those that lift weights there's nothing that screams red flags and police sirens when you hear someone talking about oh I'm cutting right now and so it's just it's so interesting to just think about how society just praises the over exercising and views that as what's the word I'm looking for just like grit you are dedicated That's the word I'm really looking for.

SPEAKER_03:

Willpower.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, willpower. Oh, I don't know how you can do that. And then that high actually feels really good when you hear someone talk about that. And this is a very vulnerable share for me, but I think when I was struggling with my eating disorder, I think that made me feel better than others in a way.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, yeah, for sure. And I can definitely understand why why you would preface that with this is vulnerable because you don't want to feel like that. There were many times that I turned down something or did something eating disorder related and I thought it was like, I don't know, put on a pedestal. And the thing about that though is that's our mind. We don't care if anyone else agrees. That's what we think. So when people People in society hear eating disorder no matter what eating disorder it may be. I feel like our society has shaped us to just automatically have this visual that's a stereotype. And like you've already mentioned, it's usually not a male in that initial stereotype image. So how, as a male living with an eating disorder and then eventually recovering, how, aside from an eating disorder being so awful and hard in itself what was the experience like with also being a male

SPEAKER_00:

in the space of recovery and I feel like I still experience this today and it's why I'm so passionate about trying to be a male in this space is that I felt so isolated I felt so isolated and alone you know there one of my good friends from high school she had actually shared a little of her story of living with an eating disorder on social media and so I was able to connect with her and I felt safe you know sharing you know I've been living with an eating disorder myself and I'm thinking about choosing recovery but there were no men out there for me to enter into that space with and I am such a firm believer that healing happens in community and it's really hard to heal in isolation and so I found it really challenging to heal when I did not have other men around me that I could be vulnerable with and to have these men be able to be like I get you I get this is something I'm I've also experienced right for me it felt very different to talk to a female about it right there's almost once again And I think a lot of internalized shame and guilt that was still present when I, you know, was talking to other females in recovery. I wasn't very open that I was in the phase of recovery. But, you know, I think even now on the other side of it all, it can still feel a little bit vulnerable for me in a way, even though I've shared my story multiple times. there's still this kind of like fear of judgment, even though I know that would never happen. That's more that irrational mind that pops up.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and it's also, in a way, been reinforced, too. So you kind of, even though it's irrational, it's only irrational to a point because of our society, unfortunately. So you said that there wasn't really a male community for you to really connect with, and that's not to say males don't struggle with eating disorders, right? I know that, you know that. But how much of that do you think that community left because males feel like they can't talk about it. Like in terms of men don't talk about their feelings, men are supposed to be strong, all of that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so kind of now we're starting to talk about gender norms, gender roles, certain things like that in a way. I think it's really challenging for well, some men, I should say, to be open and vulnerable, to just express and share those parts of themselves that society has taught them that they need to suppress, right? Because they're taught they need to be strong, they need to keep their emotions in, they can't show any emotion, a lot of that. And so I think it's a combination of that there. And I just think once again, it's this common belief that eating disorders are just a female thing, right? And I think too, when you think of males struggling with eating disorders, right? I think we think gay male who is struggling with an eating disorder. And maybe I should say you can think of that, but I know that those who who are you know who have struggled and in some of the clients that I work with who are men right they have shared that with me that they fear that other people will view them as gay which makes me feel sad that they're viewing that as a negative thing a to begin with right um but b the fact that that can be such a barrier for them to actually speak out and seek the help that they need

SPEAKER_03:

yeah i i agree with you i never thought about that and it's upsetting to like hear that that would like you said would be viewed as a negative thing but what's so irrational to me and just it breaks my heart is that the reason why a male may not come forward is totally independent of the eating disorder

SPEAKER_01:

yep yep

SPEAKER_03:

that's because coming forward no matter who you are what your eating disorder is is hard period then if you're also combating with thoughts or perceptions that aren't related that just

SPEAKER_00:

it's just another barrier right it's like it's like you're trying to you're rock climbing and you're almost to the top and you like you want to get to the top but you see this rock that's like within reach break oh that feels maybe just a little too far And you're too nervous to take that leap of faith to get to that other rock that will then propel you up to the top.

SPEAKER_03:

and across people you've worked with that can feel ostracizing for them. And I know there's not just one answer

SPEAKER_00:

to that either. Yeah, that's so true. I will say, I think some of the bigger barriers for men entering into recovery and those that are in recovery, excuse me, is a lot of work with body image and really working with their relationship with movement right um not to generalize but i feel like a majority of the men that i work with struggle with those two things and they have attached so much of their identity to those two things as well as i as i would imagine to you know women if that's a part of their journey um but i think that those two things are really hard for men to work through in particular And it's so interesting now that I'm saying this out loud, because I think there are moments as I'm talking and sharing something like this, I'm like, oh, wow, that's probably what women have been experiencing for quite some time, right? In terms of like their bodies needing to look a certain way. And so I think for me, it's these moments where I'm just like, holy cow, like, I maybe have had, you know, some blockage to maybe seeing these perceptions, because I think there's a part of me that feels It feels like, I don't know the right emotion in the moment, but it feels a certain way. Like, why aren't men getting this attention of, you know, they struggle with eating disorders and they experience body challenges and struggles too. Yeah, it's really challenging, I think, to be in that space. But I think for me, if I've learned anything in recovery, it's creating space for the both and, right? just like both experiences can be true and one is not more important than the other they both can coexist at the same time but going back to your question so those are two really big things that are challenging for men to work through also finding a provider that is a huge barrier in terms of men maybe feeling safe and secure and confident enough to really lean into recovery That's a huge problem. who work with men who are struggling with eating disorders. But that is the ratio of females to males in this space is probably 99.8% to 0.2%. Yep, and that

SPEAKER_03:

only further reinforces the societal idea that eating disorders, women.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep, exactly. And so honestly, I feel like that would be another big barrier for men too, if not the biggest.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, for sure. I think treatment in general is a barrier for everyone, but then you add in the extra layers and barriers that you just mentioned and it's even worse.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And you mentioned treatment, so I'm going to go down that rabbit hole a little bit. Oh, here we go. level of care, right, for those who are, you know, receiving help for their eating disorder. Look at who's receiving those services, what gender, what population, right? So I worked for in, I worked at a residential eating disorder facility for teens a number of summers ago, and there was one teenage boy amidst probably 15 to 20 teenagers. girls imagine how isolating and fill in the blank with how that would feel for this teenage boy who just probably feels like even more of an outsider now so i think once you enter into the treatment space too what is reflected in there right because men aren't going in and asking for help of course men aren't going to be found in the treatment in a treatment setting

SPEAKER_03:

right I remember when I went to treatment 10 years ago, now that you brought this up, and I remember I was there, I don't know, for six months, something like that. And in the whole six months I was there, you know, people come and go. They discharge, come in, whatever. There was one male in that six months. And I remember so much about him to this day. I know his name. I remember conversations we've had in detail. And it's... Probably because not only were they like meaningful and things like that, but I think it's because he was the only male and it's sad.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. It makes me really sad too.

SPEAKER_03:

So there's a lot of societal misconceptions about male and female outside of eating disorders just in general. So usually when for women, I can speak that society reinforces smaller is better. Skinnier, thinner, any type of that is better. What are, do you think in your opinion or even for you personally, what were some of the misconceptions for men that could be attributed to your eating disorder? Just because I simply don't know what society reinforces for men because I don't pay attention to it or it doesn't affect me the same way

SPEAKER_00:

because

SPEAKER_03:

I'm not going to apply, I guess.

SPEAKER_00:

Once again, I feel like I have to go back to the ideal men or the ideal male body, right? It seems to me as if society maybe did not care or does not care the lengths that men go to achieve that certain body. And so where I'm going with that is a male may have a body that fits societal molds of what They want the body to look like, but they do not know what's going on behind closed doors. And that is the one of the most challenging thing about eating disorders is that, you know, a very high percentage of those who are living with eating disorders are actually considered to be at a quote unquote, and I do this in air quotes, normal weight. Well, whatever the heck that means, right? But that's the thing, right? Like a man could look ripped and jacked, right? And society could view that as wow, he is really fit. But behind closed doors, you don't know if he's actually struggling with binging and purging.

SPEAKER_03:

And then over-exercising.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. I've always been, mostly from my experience, just how my treatment went, it always, it still does, I shouldn't say it always, it still does to this day make me mad to no end that treatment or even access to treatment or even a diagnosis or even entertaining the idea that someone could be struggling with an eating disorder is based on their weight

SPEAKER_01:

because what

SPEAKER_03:

do they tell you in treatment numbers don't matter your weight doesn't matter yet that's what your access to treatment is based on and then that's what your discharge and recovery well is based on

SPEAKER_00:

the whole concept of BMI right like even for like the diagnostic criteria for anorexia, your BMI needs to be below, I don't even, I don't remember what number, but there's a certain cutoff, right? For where you then begin to qualify for, or you begin to fall into that category of living with anorexia.

SPEAKER_03:

And you can be at a quote unquote healthy weight. You can be quote unquote overweight, whatever. And I say those air quotes and be anorexic.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep. And yes, yes. And I think too, the diagnosis of atypical anorexia just drives me up the wall. There is nothing typical about struggling with anorexia. So why does that diagnosis even need to exist in a way? And I think what makes me feel sad is I feel like I've been hearing a lot of stories recently of those that are in larger bodies. struggling with anorexia, being diagnosed with atypical anorexia instead of just anorexia. Because... Yep. So now we're just placing a whole nother challenge and barrier for maybe those in larger bodies and what does that diagnosis mean for them as well?

SPEAKER_03:

In my mind, if that was me being diagnosed with that, that would make me personally feel as if I wasn't sick enough. That's exactly, and I know myself, that's exactly where my mind would go, is I need to work harder to get to just the diagnosis of anorexia, take that atypical out. So now that you are a professional for many years, from your perspective and your experience and your work, what is it really like to be not only a male working in the field, but a recovered male working

SPEAKER_00:

in the field. Yeah. I think for me, once again, this is where multiple things can be true. I think for me, it feels really empowering to be a male in this space, not only a male with lived experience, but a male in a space that is very heavily dominated by women right and on the other side of it once again so that's really great and it can feel once again very isolating I think sometimes there is anger in a way I see a lot of women building up other women in the space of advocacy and eating disorders which once again I have no problems with I love that you know we are really supportive of one another in the work that we do right and then I also think there's a part of me that's like I just want to feel supported but in these moments I remind myself like you have people that support you like what is what does this external validation do for you so in those moments it's just bringing myself back to why I'm in this space and why I do what I do right to create more opportunities for men to be seen to be heard to know that their struggles are real and valid regardless of their gender regardless of what they are experiencing and to have access to care

SPEAKER_01:

and

SPEAKER_00:

most importantly raising awareness for others that is probably my north star in all of this right is to continue to speak out about the male experience and really begin to shift the way that we view eating disorders.

SPEAKER_03:

I just thought of something when you were speaking. How long have you been a recovery coach now?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I've been a recovery coach for a little over two and a half years.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. There's context to that question. So I feel like this is kind of like a sidebar, but I feel like in general, overall mental health, there is a movement currently in society to awareness, break the stigma. We we are moving in the right direction for sure. But however, there's still a lot of work to be done. Have you noticed any shift since you started with everything we've just talked about? Is there any, have you made any steps forward?

SPEAKER_00:

In the space of men and eating disorders, I think only a scratch on the surface. Yeah. I think there definitely has been more research done since the 2000s on men and eating disorders, which is good. But once again, if you look at all of the research and studies that have been done on eating disorders, it's 95 plus percent of those studies are based off of women and their experience and not men. And so it makes me feel excited. I am hopeful. I'm going to keep moving forward with a very positive attitude that we can continue to move the needle and make more than a scratch in the surface with this. But there have been more research studies, which I think is good. It's going to continue to provide the information that providers need to know to provide more gender-specific care for men struggling with eating disorders.

SPEAKER_03:

I just read, I can't remember now if it was Nita or the National Alliance for Eating Disorders website I was just scrolling through their statistics and I don't remember the numbers but it said that eating disorders in males are either double or triple increasing as compared to

SPEAKER_00:

women like presently and

SPEAKER_03:

that is it's both positive and negative and I say positive very I say positive because that means people are getting more care. Males are getting more care. Males are being diagnosed properly. So it's positivity in that. But it just makes me think of how accurate is that because we're just starting to do research. What about the million of years and the millions of men who have struggled prior?

SPEAKER_00:

And with that, think about about how many men are choosing to not self-report

SPEAKER_01:

right

SPEAKER_00:

right so then you're that number i think is quite higher and same with same with you know the stat that i think it's of those struggling with an eating disorder one and three are male right i think it's probably closer to one and two

SPEAKER_03:

yeah it's yeah it has to be 50 50 if not higher yeah um And then also, what about the people, the males who don't, for lack of a better explanation, know any better and they're misdiagnosed?

SPEAKER_00:

Misdiagnosis, undiagnosed, right? Because there is a lot of education needed for medical providers on how to be more aware of the warning signs of an individual with eating disorders. I attended an eating disorder out on the East Coast back in late April, early May, and I attended a session all about that. And one of the individuals was like, in med school, they only have like a day on eating disorders, if that, right? And you know, they're taught if someone is overweight, the answer is diet and weight loss. It's not, let's actually get curious about what might be fueling some of these behaviors around food and let's dig a little bit deeper right because they might be struggling with depression they might be struggling with PTSD right they may struggle with ADHD and eating is a way for their brain to get stimulation

SPEAKER_03:

yep there's yeah we could talk about that for hours and I just think in the the medical field, in the healthcare field, medical field, however you want to label it. I just think there is such a lack of awareness. It's not even in the healthcare field. I don't even think it's stigma at that point. I think it's, they don't know. They weren't, they didn't learn it. They didn't, they weren't educated on it. So why would, why would they look for that if they don't know?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And that's the thing. It's like eating disorders don't have Right. So you can't just solely say someone has an eating disorder or doesn't have an eating disorder based off of just weight alone.

SPEAKER_03:

Right. And some things that I've always wondered too is how I feel like the whole assessment process of the diagnosis needs to be fixed, revamped, however you want to label it. it because think about how manipulating a person with an eating

SPEAKER_01:

disorder

SPEAKER_03:

is they are not truthful when it comes to that they are manipulating they don't want anyone to know because then they can't do what they gotta do and then also on the other end think about what you and I just talked about at the beginning where oh this just this sucks but this maybe just be life I don't know and maybe they are not they're not purposely being untruthful they just simply think it's normal or a phase or anything like that where those people are missed because of either of those reasons

SPEAKER_00:

and if we want to bring it back to the topic of talking about men I can guarantee you men are going to be in denial if that's even in question right if a diagnosis is in question for them they are going to probably deny for sure I

SPEAKER_03:

could see that 100% So as for this community as a whole, people like yourself and professionals, people like myself who tell our story to help others, how can we expand the conversation so that more men feel safe and validated? Because I know that I'm a safe space for a male to reach out to me and say something, but that male isn't going to think that or assume that. How can the community... make it more known?

SPEAKER_00:

I think it's A, just really leaning into sharing our story more. But B, I think it's in, I really believe in the power of modeling. And so I think it's also can, we can also take action in the way that we talk about food and we talk about body around everyone, right? You know, I have three nieces and so i am very cognizant of how i am choosing to talk about food surrounding when i'm near them and if i hear anyone else in my family make a very triggering comment or maybe a very diet culture comment i immediately counteract that right and so the power of just using language the power honestly to stand up to diet culture talk when we hear it and name it Right. I always tell the story of a couple of Thanksgivings ago. My dad went back for a second piece of pie and my mom was on him of like, oh, you're getting like trying to shame him, like guilt trip him or shame him for getting that second piece. And I stopped and I told my mom, if he wants another piece, he can get another piece. There's nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_01:

And so

SPEAKER_00:

it's just little things like that that I think can maybe help other people reflect on on their word choice the language all of that which i think can reinforce individuals who may be struggling with body image right that they need to keep engaging in those behaviors because if they get outside of those behaviors they're going to be criticized or judged because eating more in the eyes of diet culture is bad we need to eat as little as possible essentially

SPEAKER_03:

little is possible no sugar no this no that it's mind-boggling and I that whole topic just got me thinking on I'm a very sarcastic person so sometimes I will admit and I only do this with people who my close family or my close friends who know that I don't will not put up with comments like that so I will say sarcastic comments but I just think at work like there's a lot of pressure for wellness challenges and because of my position I'm a pretty high management position where I work and I've always kind of just felt pressure and pressure I put on myself no one's ever come to me and said anything it's just oh I'm I should model for staff to get more staff to participate in what we do and I felt guilty that I wasn't participating in any of the wellness challenges but I was like I'm not doing that because a i'd be doing it for the wrong reasons and b no yep like i don't support that so why am i gonna do it i'm all set

SPEAKER_00:

and i think what you're highlighting there is i think the courage to be different right and i think once again i wish men had the courage to be different When I say different, I mean admitting. I don't like to use the word admitting because it assumes negative connotation, but rather embracing. That's a word that is very important to me. That is embracing their experience of living with an eating disorder. Having the courage to be different, to be that one in three that chooses to speak out and share his story because once again it is representation matters for sure especially when we get to marginalized communities

SPEAKER_03:

for sure one person speaking out leads to two and then that only multiplies and I really love how you said embrace because it's so easy to attach shame and guilt and any other word like that to the fact that we have lived with eating disorders because that's part of having eating disorders all the shame and guilt and then on top of that we shame ourselves because we have it and I'm not downplaying it 100% 1000% sucks in every way but when you start shifting your thinking and kind of using it to your advantage in the sense that okay have this thing and how can I in any way, shape, or form make it at least a little bit better, a little bit positive? And that once you get that ball rolling, that's how you, in my opinion, will get into talking about it, getting into recovery, getting into the nitty gritty of it and stop being so afraid of it. Because I learned, and I think that this goes for everyone who struggles with anything really, once you label it, you take a lot of the power away, whether it's eating disorder or not.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. My therapist always likes to say, um, name it to tame it.

SPEAKER_03:

That's

SPEAKER_00:

good. Yeah. Right. Um, absolutely. And I think one thing too, with naming it, especially if it's, if naming it is maybe the diagnosing of the eating disorder, right. Or then like naming the eating disorder, it's, it's, for me, it's all about separation from that identity or that diagnosis, right? So what I mean by that is, you know, I'm very intentional. Word choice is everything to me. And so I'm very intentional with saying I lived with an eating disorder. I don't say I was anorexic, right? Because me as an individual, I am separate from my eating disorder. My eating disorder does not define me. I lived with it. And I think the process of recovery is all about learning how to unblend with the eating disorder getting the eating disorder over here and being able to identify when it's speaking and getting me over here and knowing when this is speaking and i need to come in with my own voice because my voice is not the eating disorder voice

SPEAKER_03:

right it's i'm sure you've heard of this it's like the eating disorder self and yourself like they don't align if you sit down and talk about the things that you love you care about your values your morals they're not ever going to align with whatever your eating disorder wants or needs or tells you that it wants and needs so the more you just like you said separate it and so it becomes easier to at the very least identify who is at play in that very moment

SPEAKER_00:

so I hope that if there are any men out there listening to this Try approaching it from this mindset, right? Maybe you are struggling currently and you are afraid to maybe go in and receive the help that you may need. Remind yourself that you are living with these struggles. You are not those struggles, right? And so I think it's so important to just not judge yourself too much, right? the eating disorder is serving a purpose we don't you don't know what purpose when you're living with it right it's really as you enter into that space of recovery where you begin to learn the role and purpose that it has served but it is there for a reason be kind be gentle with yourself and know that you are so much more than that and you are so much you are so worthy of receiving that help yes it may be scary but i can promise you the grass is truly greener on the other side

SPEAKER_03:

yeah it i can second that it takes a lot of courage and bravery to ask for help even admit to yourself i know for me that was half the battle too um but i can speak from experience that once you admit it identify it ask for help it is a little easier because now it's like okay i have this thing this is what i'm gonna do to get rid of this thing and it's a long road but it i like to look at it and even still look at it as like a self-discovery like you get to reinvent yourself so you could reframe it as however you want but it is once you name it it takes a lot of that power away um and one thing i also do like to say is and i'm sure this can be applicable for males too is eating disorders in my opinion are something that are hard for people to understand if they have not lived with it so i've always made a point to be open about it i don't care who knows i don't care what people think if they know whatever but for the people who matter to me I've always made it known like I will share things with you you can ask me whatever you want to ask but I don't need you to pretend to understand and it's okay that you don't because for myself I found that when I was trying to over explain or explain things a million different ways I was just making myself more frustrated so it's okay they can still people in your life can still be supportive if they can't it relate or they don't understand it and

SPEAKER_01:

that

SPEAKER_03:

was a big thing I had to learn for myself

SPEAKER_00:

and once again I feel like I want to just keep making these parallels to men too right but even think about what that experience is like from the male perspective right like a male trying to tell a female right like sure like I can tell I can share my story with you and there's an essence of you because you also have lived experience that can empathize with my experience. But let's say a male is talking to his girlfriend or his mother who doesn't have lived experience. How that also might be challenging and frustrating. Or it might be met with maybe a lot of sympathy. And I think for me, almost like a I don't like I don't want to use the words pity party but just maybe like an over exaggeration or maybe drawing too much attention to the challenges that this individual may be facing

SPEAKER_03:

yep I can see how what was going through my head was a female going to a female and saying hey I'm struggling with that person's gonna feel bad they're gonna be remorseful yes but then I can see how there's definitely an added layer for men because like we've touched on not that it's expected for women to have eating disorders but that's the stereotype that's out there so it's not as shocking to the other person and I think that's a whole another layer of taking those first steps to say hey I'm struggling

SPEAKER_01:

mm-hmm mm-hmm

SPEAKER_03:

so a lot of well not a lot of probably all of our conversations tonight was it was a great conversation but a lot of it was kind of in a negative light of saying where society is falling short for many of the users but what gives you hope about the future for that mm-hmm

SPEAKER_00:

Honestly, I think it is the number of men that I feel like are starting to feel a little bit more vulnerable in this space. I think what also gives me a lot of hope right now is the fact that individuals like yourself are interested in hearing and learning about the male experience, right? think that there is interest there. But once again, who's going to fill that need? And so I think it gives me hope that I think a lot of individuals are wanting to learn more about the male experience and know how to provide better support for men who may be struggling with an eating disorder. And I feel like those are two of the biggest things that give me hope. I feel like I am an optimist through and through. And so I am going to keep this positive attitude and, you know, keep advocating and any male that I find in this space, I should say any male that finds one another in this space, we like latch on to one another, right? And so there are a number of men that I've been so grateful and able to connect with and being in spaces with them, especially in the space of advocacy for It feels so empowering and so good. And so I just think we just gotta keep rallying the troops, rallying the men to keep sharing their stories, to want to really begin to create change and ultimately try to lessen the stigma of not only living with an eating disorder, but being a male living with an eating disorder. I would love to get to the point one day where an eating disorder is an eating disorder, right? There's no gender attached to it, right? And that it's very neutral, right? That anyone, any age can experience, develop, and recover from an eating disorder.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, eating disorders do not pick and choose based on anything. And I just want to kind of continue that and just say that I'm really grateful that you came on and to talk about this with me because I shared this with you when we first chatted but obviously a lot of my content is well most of it's my own so a lot of it is coming from a female perspective just because I'm a female but I know enough just through my experience and things like that that it's not just a female thing but I didn't feel right coming out in here by myself and trying to like knock down those barriers because a because all eating disorders are different right but I also know that aside from mental health aside from eating disorders just as people societal standards of females and males are totally different so meanwhile a female and a male might have an eating disorder the societal factors and the pressure that they're tying to that eating disorder is going to be so different and I just I just felt like I couldn't do it without someone who is a male who had lived and recovered from an eating disorder. So thank you for allowing me to.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And thanks for creating this space. And, you know, I know how just a moment ago I was talking about like a male maybe sharing his experience with a female. Right. And they'd be able to relate in somehow. But there would be this gap missing. Right. Of true understanding. And I'm reflecting on that of like, yes, that is true. And what I would love to maybe have these conversations also be able to highlight is that, you know, men, maybe if you do find yourself struggling, and you know, a female in your life who has lived experience, that actually might be a really soft landing place for you, they might not fully understand. But this conversation, right, I think it's is just proof that that shared experience of living with an eating disorder just automatically connects us in some way so while there is sure some space where there might be areas of opportunity and things that men might not get I want to reframe that and focus on men you can still receive support from women and it is okay if they don't fully understand your perspective, that is okay. All I know is that in all of the women that I've talked to in this space, they care about you and they want you to get the help that you need and they want to see you thriving.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I can for sure say that myself, the people that I know and have connected with would never a male women's disorder or any sense of judgment or anything like that. And I know that at the very least, on the surface level, they're going to understand what it's like to have the anxiety that comes with it. They're going to understand how debilitating the thoughts are about food. They're going to understand how hard it is to get treatment or things like that. So at the very least, they're going to know that common so you're not ever going to be met with total misunderstanding

SPEAKER_00:

and that's what I tell female providers too who have asked me how do I support a male with an eating disorder well sure you might not understand the male experience but you do know how to work with an individual who has an eating disorder there just might be some complexities and nuance to that so start from there you trust in yourself

SPEAKER_03:

We will get there. People like us will keep doing what we're doing. And I just really want males to know that you're seen by the community.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I appreciate you having me on and just creating space for the male experience. Once again, this is just my own perspective, right, of being a male living with an eating disorder, I can guarantee you there will probably be similarities between me and other men, but this is one of just the many stories that are out there of men struggling living with an eating disorder and in recovery from an eating disorder.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep. Recovery, in my opinion, is one of the bravest and hardest and most rewarding things that you can do, so you can do it.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03:

Thank you, Eric.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03:

Thank you so much for joining me for this episode of Bite by Bite. I'm so grateful to be able to share this space with you and I hope that today's conversation brought you some insight and a sense of community. Remember, no matter what you're healing from, healing isn't perfect and every step you take does matter. If you enjoyed this episode, consider sharing it with someone who might need it, leaving a review, or subscribing on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts so that you never miss an episode. If you want to connect more you can find me on instagram at bite by bite recovery i'd love to hear your thoughts your stories or just to say hi until next time let's keep taking life bite by bite see ya

People on this episode

Head Shot

Kaitlyn Moresi

Host
Head Shot

Eric Pothen

Guest