Eating Disorder Recovery Q&A with Amy Goeckel and Merrit Stahle

Welcome back to the Bite by Bite Podcast.

This episode is special because it’s off-the-cuff and entirely fueled by your questions and comments. If that wasn’t enough, Kait is joined by not only one, but two guests for this episode.

In this episode, Kait is joined by Amy Goeckel and Merrit Stahle. The three of them asked what you wanted to know and what you had to say. Then, they brought it to the mic. Together they unpack their responses to your questions and comments by sharing their own personal insights that include practical tools and resources that can help support you on your hardest days. 

In this episode, Kait, Amy & Merrit discuss:

• Recovery tools for navigating pregnancy (3:54)
• What to say & not say when supporting someone in eating disorder recovery (9:46)
• The importance of understanding YOUR unique eating disorder recovery journey (18:33)
• The difficulty in navigating diet culture, GLP-1s, and social media pressures (20:28)
• How to distinguish guilt from shame (24:32)
• When and how body image gets better in eating disorder recovery(29:57)
• Suggestions for finding support and resources when financial or social barriers are present (37:41)
• The challenge with eating disorder treatment metrics (43:30)
• The power of speaking up and not keeping your eating disorder a secret (51:49)

Episode Guests:

Amy Goeckel is the host of The Eating Disorder Diaries, a podcast that chronicles her 15+ year battle with bulimia, her experience with eating disorder recovery, and features interviews from those who have been a part of her personal journey, have had their own experience with an eating disorder, or are industry experts ranging from doctors, therapists, to nutritionists. 

Merrit Stahle is a certified Eating Disorder Recovery Coach and the founder of Merrit Elizabeth Recovery, where she supports individuals in reclaiming their relationship with food, body, and self. She’s the author of The SHIFT newsletter, a powerful resource for those navigating healing, and the co-founder of Conquering Bulimia.

Resources from Episode

8 KEYS TO RECOVERY FROM AN EATING DISORDER

VIRTUAL SUPPORT GROUPS   

THE UNTETHERED SOUL &  GUIDED JOURNAL

Related Episodes

UNEXPECTED LESSONS: Lessons My Eating Disorder Taught Me About Healing & Self-Worth

Connect with Kait

@bitebybiterecovery

bitebybiterecovery@gmail.com 

Connect with Merrit

@merritelizabeth

Merrit Elizabeth Recovery

Transcript

UNKNOWN: 0:00

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 0:33

Welcome to Bite by Bite, the podcast that takes you step by step through the messy, beautiful, and real journey of my struggle with an eating disorder. and my recovery. I'm Kate, and I'm here to share my experiences, lessons, and the wisdom that I've gathered along the way. Here, I share it all. The raw, the real, and the uncensored, so those who can relate know they're not alone in the tough moments. And for those of you who haven't battled an eating disorder, your attention is just as important in helping to educate and break the societal stigma. Before we dive in, please remember that while I hope my story and reflection This podcast is not a substitute for professional treatment. If you are struggling or need extra support, please reach out to a qualified mental health professional. Today, I am with two incredible guests to do something a little different. We opened up the floor to you. With me, I have Mara Elizabeth, an eating disorder recovery coach based in Chicago, and Amy Geckel, the host of the Eating Disorder Diaries podcast, is back for a second appearance on Bite by Bite. We asked our Instagram community to share the questions they've had and experiences they wanted to be heard, and then we took it to the mic. Together, we unpacked your answers and offered our own, off-the-cuff, professional, from all of our personal experiences and Merit's professional work. No scripts, no rehearsals, just real vulnerable conversation about the messy, meaningful, complicated process of recovery. We talk about what's helped us, what's helped you, and tools and resources we've all leaned on at different points in our journeys. It's communities-driven, stigma-free, and full of heart. So whether you're tuning in from a place of struggle, curiosity, or support, you're in the right place and we're happy to have you. And one more thing, This podcast is explicit because if I'm going to do something, there's no way in hell I'm going to leave my personality out of it. So let's dive in. Okay, so I'm here today with two guests. This is the first time to have two people on the episode at the same time. So I have Amy Geckel, who was on episode four, I believe. So she is back. She's also the podcast host for Eating Disorder Diaries. And I have Merit, who is a recovery coach, an eating disorder recovery coach, and I'm very happy to have them both. So hi, Merit. Hi, Amy. Hello. episode four about merit. This is your first time. So can you just tell the listeners a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_00: 3:14

Yeah, it is my first time. It's an honor. So thanks for having me. I love that we have three people on at the same time. This is fun. It is fun. I'm excited. Yeah. So I'm an eating disorder recovery coach. I'm based in Chicago, but I see all of my clients virtually. I've been doing this for I think over five years now. That's probably when I opened my practice. I have a certification in coaching from the Carolyn Koston Institute and a master's in health promotion management and other certifications in applied neuroscience. Yeah, and that's me. Are there any other specific questions I should answer? No, I think that's good. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 3:54

All right. So this idea kind of came randomly. We were just chatting one day and we said, let's just do an episode with no script, no nothing. And here we are. But we did, all three of us did post questions. and like polls and things like that on our Instagram stories. So a lot of what we're going to finish off on actually comes from the audience. So I don't know, Amy or Mary, do any of you want to go first or do you want to start with questions or? I

SPEAKER_03: 4:24

feel like I kind of want to highlight that I went to eating disorder recovery support group two nights ago, kind of just for my own mental health. I consider myself a recovered person, but that doesn't mean I don't feel like I need the support. And especially as I'm navigating pregnancy for the first time, a lot of thoughts are coming up and And I guess in my recovery, I'm getting not frustrated, but maybe a little frustrated that I still have to kind of manage these thoughts. But I think that's what recovery is. Recovery means I don't act on it. It doesn't mean I don't get the urges, but it just means that I have the tools to cope with urges. And new stuff is coming up in pregnancy for me, or maybe old stuff is coming up, but it feels new now. So I went to support group this week, and I think the purpose of us agreeing to kind of pull our audiences, it felt to me like a support group because even when I went to support group and it's been a year and a half since I went, nothing has changed in the structure. Everyone is so open and there to connect with community and like look for support. And the structure is the same and it just felt like being home. And when we pulled, when I pulled my audience specifically and I'm getting like these relatable answers sent back to me, it just kind of felt like a hug almost. a warm and fuzzy support group, especially like coming from someone who's in recovery. I just feel like I can relate to them. So I don't know, maybe like we can talk about the questions that we ask the audience first and go round robin, whatever you guys think.

SPEAKER_01: 6:01

Yeah, I actually, now that you just said that and kind of talked about navigating everything with pregnancy, which congratulations, by the way, and this isn't something that I can ever personally bring to the podcast. So I guess my question for you is any advice, and I know you're going through it, so you're still learning. But if you had any tips or advice or anything like that for someone who maybe is struggling or does have a past kind of like you, but is recovered and maybe they're pregnant and things are resurfacing. If they don't have the resource of a support group, what could be something? I

SPEAKER_03: 6:33

think leaning on your tried and true tools and remembering what your tried and true tools are has been important for me. So I neglected support group. Fortunately, my support group does have virtual sessions. So literally anyone listening to this could dial into that. It's the Eating Disorder Foundation in Denver. But if you're not going to do that, then I'm still remembering what makes me feel really good. And that's meditating. And what have I not done a lot this pregnancy is meditate and I've slept instead. So, you know, I'm just trying to kind of integrate when I feel good enough and like I can integrate my tried and true tools because, yeah, recovery isn't always easy. It's That's maybe the frustrating part about recovery for me sometimes is that not every day is going to be a walk in the park and you're going to be faced with trials and tribulations that you have to overcome. And yeah, it's just remembering what works for you because what works for me might not work for you. Maybe it's journaling for you. Maybe it's exercise for you. Maybe it's following a meal plan. I'm not really sure. But yeah, just rely on the tools that you have that you know work.

SPEAKER_01: 7:46

Yeah, I love that. And I think I have a bad habit of not going, of stopping doing what works for me when I feel good. And even something as simple, it could be even not even just sort of related, just relaxing or taking a nap or taking a walk or something that really has nothing to do with the behavior or the eating disorder directly, but just something to make me feel good. And even something small like that helps.

SPEAKER_03: 8:12

Oh my gosh, I know. And I know that Merit always pulls her listeners. She has quite the following on Instagram and Mary, you always post like the neuroscience behind concepts and that really helps. And I remember something that you posted recently is, and I might butcher it, that's a little bit, but like why do we feel like so triggered or so unsafe when we get that full feeling? And for me, even a tool that I have is going back to people that I follow like you who give answers to me like that and like knowing like, oh my gosh, I can actually figure out why I have kind of this unsafe feeling in my body right now.

SPEAKER_01: 8:52

Yeah, merit's like the neuroscience queen.

SPEAKER_00: 8:55

Oh, thanks, guys. That was so sweet. I'm glad that's so helpful to you, Amy. I find it helpful, too, to know the reason, you know, why I'm thinking a certain way, feeling a certain way. And that does translate into figuring out, like, okay, now I know the why. What's the how? Now what do I do?

SPEAKER_03: 9:11

Exactly. And again, I mean, we've even talked previously about using chat GPT. I did I already say that I have pregnancy brain right now I can't remember if I brought up chat GPT but I know I've talked about it with merit before and like I'll go to chat GPT and I'll be like okay so now what I truly use in the interim if I not crisis mode but if I'm feeling like I just need someone to bounce things off of I will reason with chat GPT like okay what are next steps for me if I'm feeling uncomfortable in my body what can I do and I always get actionable mantras or reminder to take deep breaths and things like that so just talk But, you know, also just talking to you girls in this unscripted episode, just it's nice to talk with people that get it and like feel like a little support group community in here.

SPEAKER_00: 9:59

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I love that you're you're using it in that way. I think there's we have so many resources now, if you know where to look so many good apps, you know, I love the open app and there's so many other apps to based around like CBT coping skills. So it's cool with technology. what we have now what can help us in the moment when we're really feeling the urge or the thoughts come on strong it definitely is

SPEAKER_01: 10:25

yeah chat gbt is great i use it a lot for journal prompts because i when it comes to journaling i need i need you to tell me what i'm journaling about otherwise i just get stuck on like okay well what's next or what do i talk about so they for anyone listening if you do use chat gbt any type of journal prompts that could be doesn't need to being sort of related, but any category, great journal prompts.

SPEAKER_00: 10:52

The Untethered Soul Guided Journal is another good one for really thought-provoking journal prompts too. You can find that on Amazon. Cool. Love that.

SPEAKER_01: 11:00

I've got all these resources. All right, I'm going to jump to a question that I posted and I got a bunch of answers on, but there's one that I really want to kind of talk about because in my experience, and if I had to guess, it's probably very common. common. So the question was, what do you wish friends, family, loved ones, anyone in your immediate circle that you interact with, what do you wish they knew about your struggle with an eating disorder? And one of them, I'm assuming this must have been a person who hasn't had this struggle before because they said, I want to know what is helpful to say or do and what is not helpful. And I think that that is such a simple question, but it goes so far because it's hard to, if you haven't no idea about an eating disorder in terms of what it's like, it's hard to support someone because it is one of those things that you just know, you don't really know it unless you experience it. So I can think of a million things, but I just want to talk about that for a second because I think that'll be really helpful for listeners.

SPEAKER_00: 12:06

Definitely. I think the biggest thing is asking the person how you can support them. You know, I mean, I think no one can share better than the person themselves what's going to be super supportive So I say that's number one, always. Ask them first how you can be most supportive to them. That's how you're going to get the best information.

SPEAKER_03: 12:47

perspective and also figure out from you know the person who isn't struggling but wants to support their loved one who's suffering perspective and I mean it looks like you got a lot of answers Kate so I definitely want to like hone in on that but I also just think that it's okay if you don't know what kind of help you even need if you're struggling maybe something to sit on I always think that having help from a therapist and kind of talking it out can can help you figure that out. So I would suggest if you're not in therapy and you have the means to be able to go do that, talk to a therapist about it. If not, use chat GPT as your therapist. You really can and see like what are ways that you can feel support because I mean thinking about eating disorder recovery or struggles. And thinking about other aspects in life where you're just struggling, like grief, maybe sometimes you don't know what you really need in the moment, but it's almost just like just sitting with it for a little bit and pondering on that. So, Kate, would you mind sharing some of the responses you had? I just feel like you got a bunch back from your audience.

SPEAKER_01: 13:55

Yeah, actually, the same person kind of gave feedback to their own response, which I love. So whoever that

SPEAKER_02: 14:03

was,

SPEAKER_01: 14:04

good job. They kind of just they said they want to know what's helpful, what's not. But then they had said like their second response was you never know how much someone is struggling with anything. So it's not, don't comment on people's bodies or their eating habits because society just, even it may be well-intentioned, right? But our society, that's like when you don't see someone for a long time, that's almost probably everyone's first response in some way, shape or form. Oh, you look great. What have you done? Did you get your hair, like something. So I'm going to say that's a huge one. one. Just... I know most of us fall in tension. There's like a fine line, but just from my experience, and I'm sure you both can agree, just try not to comment on that, I think. And then for me, I don't really have a good answer for what's helpful or not because I think it, not only, like you said, Mary, does it depend on the actual person, but I also think it depends on the actual person, the day, and the mood, maybe even the hour. So my biggest thing personally, Not so much when I was at rock bottom, but when I was a little better and starting to gain motivation and momentum in recovery, I would try to just reinforce to whoever I was talking to, if they weren't a professional, obviously, but I don't need you to understand. I don't expect you to understand. It's okay that you don't. The biggest thing that you can do for me is don't treat me any differently. Don't walk on eggshells around me because that's just kind of awkward and also that's not what it's going to be like in the world for someone who's recovering like the world isn't going to walk an eggshell so in my opinion just depending on the person being as normal as possible just because i think that removes the assumption that oh you're judging me or you're thinking about this things like that um Someone, this made me laugh, and I do, my podcast is marked explicit, so I am just going to read this word for word because I laughed when I saw it. And someone said, I just wish that people knew some days are just harder than others, and it's no one's fault, and everyone who is concerned just needs to chill the fuck out.

SPEAKER_02: 16:22

And

SPEAKER_01: 16:24

that made me laugh because I like dark humor, but if you don't understand it to me, that just says, even if you just there like in presence that's a lot that means a lot

SPEAKER_03: 16:38

I was going to say that too I think I completely agree with that it's almost like what's your love language type of situation and for me quality time like if I'm spending quality time with someone sometimes I really do just need someone there in the moment to support me like sit with me while I'm having these thoughts I think that's why I feel so good after leaving a therapy session because I'm able to talk and process my thoughts out loud and feel like a completely normal quote unquote person like leaving my sessions just because you know someone's there to validate me and spend time with me.

SPEAKER_00: 17:12

You know another thing I'll add to that is too we talked about not commenting on other people's bodies or food or whatever and I would also say do a good job of not commenting on your own body or food out loud too because when you have an eating disorder and you're sitting with someone and that other person says even something like oh I'm so full that can be so triggering to someone with an eating disorder if they're not full if they have more to eat there's so many different reasons so I say there and there is a balance too because you're kind of saying like don't walk on eggshells around someone for sure which I totally agree with but if you can help just being careful about saying things about your body or food I think that does go a long way

SPEAKER_01: 17:56

yeah for sure and there's a lot of comments that are just natural and but it's just a way that our brain processes it. So it's very hard for even us half the time to really know what is going to trigger us. It may trigger us one day and never again, or maybe we've heard it 59 times, but the 60th, it's going to send us into a tailspin. So it's trial and error in a way a lot of the time.

SPEAKER_03: 18:24

Speaking of trial and error, I got a response back to this question too about what do you wish your friends and anyone closest to you knew about your struggle with an eating disorder. And this is more so in regards to her recovery journey rather than her struggle. But she said that she's an N of one individual in recovery. So and then she said, so my journey is my own. And I wasn't sure what this was, actually. So I looked it up. And what this means is that in clinical trials, the N denotes the number of participants. So an N of one trial is when the sample size is literally just one person. So like all of the focus on this trial and all of the outcomes are all about that individual's unique experience in recovery. And so for someone with an eating disorder who's in treatment or on their recovery journey, this means that their recovery is unique to them and what works or doesn't work for them in treatment or in coping strategies or with their food choices, it might be completely different for them versus for others. And I think that's the case for honestly everyone, but I like that this person specifically called that that out because it's like saying that my recovery is my own experiment with my own data and my own path. And I think that that was cool for me to learn something new about someone who follows me, but then also just to kind of like emphasize that, yeah, what works for me might not work for you.

SPEAKER_01: 19:50

Yeah, I saw that response when you put it in the Google Doc. And I was like, oh, this looks very intellectual and scientific. Let me read that one because I saw like the end of one. But that's so true. It's like my recovery is going to look different than this person's and this person's and everyone's.

SPEAKER_00: 20:06

For some people with your audience, Amy, that was so cool that you looked it up because easily you could have like gone to the next response. But yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_03: 20:15

Oh, I mean, I think we're all data people here. I have talked to Merit and Kate both about like the neuroscience and concepts and like if we understand the science, it helps us just piece things together more easily. And I had to. I saw Anna Bonham. I said, what does this even mean?

SPEAKER_00: 20:32

Yeah, yeah. And I think touching on that concept that everyone's recovery journey is unique, it's important, I think, especially for parents to know that. There's no therapist or dietician or coach that's going to have the perfect answer in terms of what you can do to help your child or a loved one. Every day is different and everyone's recovery is unique. So no one will have that perfect answer, which is why it is so imperative that you ask that person directly what's going to be most supportive to them. I

SPEAKER_01: 21:01

agree. Um... Whether or not you struggle with an eating disorder, what is your first thought that comes to mind when you learn that someone you know is struggling with one? The first answer I got, and I know that, I don't know if you guys already saw this in the doc, but I doubt either one of you are going to be surprised. I immediately started thinking of diet culture and the digital marketing of weight loss medication like GLP was, which are fairly new. So I have to say that just because the time line of like my struggle the GLP-1s and all that didn't really affect my journey of the eating disorder um but it's still in our face and it's still not except it actually makes me mad like I've had like I don't want to say mean thoughts but like I've seen like I hear people talk about like GLP-1s or like you see on Instagram it's like an ad between stories and I'm like these idiots I'm just like so I think that's where the importance of educating, even if you are struggling with an eating disorder, like educating yourself about diet culture and all that stuff. And I think for someone who, people who don't struggle with eating disorders, I think the impact is so severe. And I think the fact that people who don't even struggle with eating disorders who are seeing that that's a thing, I think that speaks volumes.

SPEAKER_03: 22:29

I mean, it's scary because it's like, it's always something new. I'm thinking 2000s. pop culture like tabloids were the thing where people would be probably be photoshopped in the tabloids and that became a thing and then we move on to social media and photoshop and just whatever facetune I'm pretty sure I used to use facetune where you could manipulate the way that your face and your body looked and all of that it's always going to be something and you just have to be aware because we're so with social media use we're so over fed and over saturated with like all of the this weight loss and what society thinks is like the perfect body and i think it's just you have to be so careful and so aware with with what you're consuming honestly for the most part but yeah what this person is saying is like there probably are so many triggering things so if if that someone's seen online like the glp one ads and everything like that and everyone getting thinner who's using them so like if we can go back to what we were just saying about like just being careful and not talking about your food or your body is that's just going to be one less contribution to that person's life to help trigger them less.

SPEAKER_01: 23:46

Another question that I had, and I don't, I really want to mention these answers because I think they made my heart melt, but I think they're also probably huge for a lot of people is what helped you most in your recovery journey and what helped you most to stay on track when you got to that recovery journey. And there were about, there were one, two, three, five responses of either getting pregnant and being a mom. And all five responses were like, about having a daughter and making sure that they could do as much as they could to like shield their daughter from all of the societal norms and misconceptions about bodies, weight, food, all of that. And I think that that is kind of sad, but I think that if that helps you in your own recovery journey, I think that it's also very beautiful that like something bigger than you helped.

SPEAKER_03: 24:44

Oh my gosh, I think something bigger than you is a theme that came through in my answers to a lot of people referred to the fact that they really needed to go up a level and go a spiritual route to really find themselves and pursue their recovery journey that way I mean I can relate to that too I guess on both sides of the coin I can relate to it with pregnancy even though I'm having a boy I think I will have announced to everyone by the time this episode comes out that I'm having a boy so it's okay to say if not I can postpone it no no no I'm announcing like next weekend so I think I'm good um but but yeah I think like if you have to read outside of you I think that's okay like sometimes yeah I guess it is said because you you didn't find that purpose before but I think sometimes that that's what happens in people's recoveries

SPEAKER_00: 25:36

I think it's inevitable too you know that you get to a point in your recovery where there has to be this like bigger greater spiritual purpose I just I think you have to get to that point I don't know how you can And I love that question, asking other people what's helped in their recovery journeys. I try to ask my audience that like once a month. My response that I always get back without a doubt is like a great therapist or a great dietitian. And then usually when I ask like what hasn't helped, it's like not a great experience with a therapist or dietitian. So it's funny. It's kind of like, you know, it highlights how like truly important the right support can be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 26:16

I mean now that you say like mentioning going to the spiritual while reading some of the responses that you add in here and someone had said like this person stayed stuck until they finally just went into the spiritual route because they were they did all they could with CBT and then they were just spinning and another one which I think I'd like to talk about this one because I think for me even they're very similar I'm even one in the same is someone said that what helped them the most was understanding the difference between guilt and shame. And to me, those are so similar.

SPEAKER_03: 26:50

Right? And I thought the same thing before. I kind of did my research on it too, but there's... Amy, do you want to research again? I know, right? It does help. I did my research for this back in the first season of my podcast and I think my podcast episodes are a tool for me too in my recovery just because I learned a lot more about eating disorders that way. And so I just clocked the information but I mean I was reading that guilt can be productive versus shame it is kind of counterproductive because guilt will tell you I did something bad versus shame will tell you I'm bad so if you're feeling shame about engaging in an eating disorder behavior like you're saying I'm a bad person for doing that versus guilt could tell you like I did a bad action like I know that this action doesn't agree with me and how that can be productive is then you can say okay I can change that action like you're not going to change you so I think I think it's okay to not really feel the difference between guilt and shame but if you can start to really distinguish that and practice that and realize I'm at the root of me and not the bad person here maybe my behavior is I want to change I think it can be really productive and have you start questioning and like at least differentiating like your behavior is versus you at the core

SPEAKER_00: 28:19

And if anyone needs more resources on this, Brene Brown talks a lot about guilt and shame. There are great TED Talks on it, but a lot of her books are super useful. And for anyone who uses meditation apps, the Open app has a lot of meditations on guilt, shame, and regret. So I think meditation and just meditating on that subject in general can be a really powerful way to move through it. I love that. I

SPEAKER_03: 28:43

didn't know about any of those resources, so thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 28:46

Yeah,

SPEAKER_00: 28:47

yeah,

SPEAKER_03: 28:47

they're good.

SPEAKER_01: 28:49

I think you did. At least for me, Amy, the way that you just explained that, it's like, oh, obviously, like the way that you just explained it, like made a lot of sense. And it kind of, it's like a thought reframe in a way. It's like, okay, like, do I, I feel like you, I feel like in a way you can kind of like be ashamed because, but even then, like, you're not ashamed of yourself. You're kind of just ashamed of what you did. Yeah. Which is kind of okay. As long as you're just not labeling yourself.

SPEAKER_03: 29:19

I think the more we reframe our thoughts in eating disorders, like the better off we are, whether it's about guilt and shame or about literally anything that you're feeling about yourself. That's been my biggest thing. It's reframe, reframe, reframe. Merit, don't you every single week you have a give me your thought and I'll reframe it for you?

SPEAKER_00: 29:36

Yes. Yes. I'm trying to like come up with these catchy headlines for like future you Friday. That's a new one. I don't know why I think it makes it more fun even though we're like reframing eating disorder thoughts but you know it's

SPEAKER_02: 29:53

catchy it's catchy yeah and helpful

SPEAKER_00: 29:57

yeah okay good I'm glad you think so so often in recovery we really just need a perspective shift it can make all the difference absolutely um

SPEAKER_01: 30:07

When does body image get better? Merit, this is a question that you had asked.

SPEAKER_00: 30:13

So this was, I had asked my audience for questions that they had for us. So I kind of took it. All right.

SPEAKER_01: 30:20

All right.

SPEAKER_00: 30:22

And that's why we

SPEAKER_01: 30:22

got

SPEAKER_00: 30:23

to answer it. Yeah. So we got to answer. I just

SPEAKER_01: 30:26

put ourselves in the hot seat.

SPEAKER_00: 30:27

Yeah. Yeah. When does body image get better? That is like, without a doubt, one of the biggest questions I get asked every single week. Something, something about body image. So I have my answer, but do you guys want to share? I

SPEAKER_03: 30:44

want to hear yours first.

SPEAKER_00: 30:47

You know what I tell everyone is that with body image, there's no magic workbook or textbook or guided journaling or therapy session you can have that's going to make a radical difference with body image. It takes time. It takes life experience. And the more that you participate in life, in social events, the better are your body image is going to get and the same with thoughts you know the more positive you make your thoughts the more positive you're going to feel about body image I think these things go hand in hand it's it's so much more about just life experience and time and consistency than like any one amazing workbook and there are great workbooks but I think I think it's a lot bigger than that I

SPEAKER_01: 31:34

agree I've I've been that person who's like read every book book possible done look at the workbooks and I'm not saying they're not helpful but I think that they're only a start like it just they kind of starts that wheel turning for me personally my when I committed to full recovery I honestly let go of the body image because not that I wanted to but I was just if I thought of every aspect of recovery I was overwhelmed so I was just like something there are a few things I have to go So what am I just going to... Like, what happened? And, like, that was one of them. And I found that the more that I just slowly let go of the eating disorder, started reframing my thoughts, being consistent, and just living my life the way I used to without my eating disorder, the more that I felt staying true to my morals, true to myself, true to my personality. It was one of those things that, like, I just looked back and I was like, I... Like body image who? Like not that my body image is great, but even on days I'm bloated, I'll notice it, I'll feel it. Like that's just part of being human. And then I'll like catch a glimpse of myself in the mirror when I'm walking by and I'm just like, oh, I'm bloated today. And it stops there. And that sounds really simple, but it takes time. It takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of patience. But once you get there, it's like, I don't even know what the word would be. It's like a victory.

SPEAKER_00: 33:07

I think we should also highlight here too that it takes time with work, with putting in the work. Because if you're listening to this and you're like, I body check every single day and I think really negative thoughts about my body and it's been six months and it's still not getting better, it's not going to. It's just not. You have to reframe. You have to put in the work. You have to stop body checking. You have to stop buying clothes that are too small for you. And that's when things will get better with time.

SPEAKER_03: 33:33

Yes, I 100% agree with that. And I mean, I I'm going to give an analogy because I think it helps. And I've said this analogy before. So if anyone's ever heard me talk, I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself, but it comes from a therapist. And she calls changing your thoughts and reframing kind of like bushwhacking. So imagine like you're walking to the beach and there's a bunch of like tall grass on the way to the beach that you have to kind of bushwhack your way through in order to get to the ocean. Like it's going to be really hard to do that at first. But the more that you like kind of take the same path over and over again and And in this case, it would be like choosing to like think something positive about yourself. That grass where you're walking on that path is going to like form a path for you. It's going to get beaten down. You're going to be able to see a way forward. You're going to easily kind of start to take that path towards the ocean. And when you start to intentionally take that path, in this case, like intentionally stop body checking or stop that bad thought, catch it in the moment when you're having it and say, I can wrap place this with something else like the easier it's going to get so over time it might be really slow it might take months and months or years and years like you'll be able to see kind of that clearer path and just kind of go there almost subconsciously like walk to the ocean like your brain is going to start to rewire itself we know the brain is neuroplastic and we can change our thoughts so I think that's important but like to your point it's not going to happen overnight like it's just not you have to intentionally pick this and choose this for yourself and it doesn't mean that like bad thoughts aren't going to come up because for me like I still I still have like body image thoughts that are hard but I'm a recovered happy person I am not the person that I was when I was struggling with my eating disorder at all and that's a win for me and I just think it's reminding myself that like I have the power to change my thoughts but then also like speaking to the bloat it's like doing everything that you can to to realize that your body's working for you so So something huge for me was also tracking my period cycles and understanding there's 100% going to be times in my cycle during the month where I am probably going to be bloated and I'm going to be low energy and lethargic. And that gave me another piece of data where I could not forgive myself, but just be more empathetic with myself during that time of the month when I'm sluggish and more bloated and realize I don't need to beat myself up for this. This actually makes sense why this is happening. This is my my body, mother nature at work, you know?

SPEAKER_01: 36:11

Good answer. Yeah. I like that. I like that analogy a lot.

SPEAKER_03: 36:15

I know. My therapist comes up with some good analogies that break through.

SPEAKER_01: 36:22

Something that happened that I did when I, that helped me with my body image was there was a planned time that I didn't even have any, aside from like my bathroom mirror, that's like a medicine cabinet. I And I would just, if something didn't fit me right, whether it was size, look, anything, I just didn't like it or it made me feel like shit, I would just throw it away. Done. I mean, waste of money, someone would argue, but I'd rather throw away money and like pick myself and get recovery then. So those are two little things that could start the process too.

SPEAKER_00: 36:59

Yeah, for sure. You could also order, I know Crossroads Trading does like the bags that you can order and then you fill it up with all the stuff and they'll pay you. Eventually, it might take a long time, but you can you can sell it that way if you don't want to like take things to the thrift shop. So might be nice to have one of those around just to throw stuff in.

SPEAKER_03: 37:17

Yeah, exactly. And what's that saying? It's the you don't need to fit into the clothes like the clothes don't need to fit you. What's the saying

SPEAKER_00: 37:28

though? Help me. I think it's like clothes aren't.

SPEAKER_02: 37:33

Whatever.

SPEAKER_00: 37:34

Scratch that. I think everyone knows what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_01: 37:37

The next two questions I do want to kind of try to answer because I think they're important and I think it's more common than it isn't. But what do you do when you have no support? And what do you do when you have significant financial barriers to get support, treatment, professionals, whatever you're looking for? Just off the top of my head, I know there's a lot of free virtual support groups. Amy, yours was Denver. What was yours that you named?

SPEAKER_03: 38:14

Yeah, the Eating Disorder Foundation.

SPEAKER_01: 38:15

And then there's a National Alliance for Eating Disorders, which they have some in person, but all of them have virtual options. But ASAT,

SPEAKER_00: 38:27

does anyone else have any?

SPEAKER_03: 38:54

Because if you don't feel like you have support, like, I can just feel like, well, it's just another day. I guess I'll struggle another day. I can totally picture being in that headspace myself back in the day. But then, so it's hard, but you think about if you are, have the financial barrier on top of that, like what we're saying with the support groups, I think there's so much, guys. I mean, like this podcast is free. YouTube videos are free. The TED Talks are free. Journaling is free. There's stuff that you can do, but it's hard when you feel like you can't can't even like support yourself so I think it's just you know one day one one moment at a time you know cliche give yourself grace but try one one thing a day like it doesn't have to be big like listen to 10 minutes of a podcast like I hopefully for for anyone who's listening to this who's struggling like you feel less alone because I think anytime I talk to someone who's an eating disorder recovery or who understands me like I feel less alone so it's just like they're There are tools out there that are free that can really help you. So start with that. And I mean, I talked to my therapist about like financial help for people to get into therapy because like we're saying, I think therapy is huge and can make a huge difference. So I think it's just, you know, trying to do your part and figure out like what can you do to find any therapy, like maybe like therapists in training offer a much lower rate, things like that. So there's options if you do have financial burdens. But again. And

SPEAKER_00: 40:32

never be afraid to reach out to people and ask if they offer sighting scale. You know, like you said, if there's any therapists in training that are offering reduced rates or free services, there are definitely options. I think you have to be really creative and to your point too, motivated to be able to find those. It can be so challenging when you don't don't have support, but can make a huge difference. So it's worth it to try. And the other thing is, too, there are so many wonderful books. I'm looking at my bookshelf right now. There's the CBT, DBT, ACT workbook, textbooks. So you can educate yourself on a lot of these concepts as well. No, it doesn't replace therapy, but it's a start in educating yourself. And you might find some really great coping skills through reading or podcasts as well. I love that book. How can we forget?

SPEAKER_01: 41:25

Yeah, since you mentioned books, there's like two books that I have that are like falling apart. I mean, I don't even think I could read them if I wanted to. The pages are falling out. They're probably not even in order. But the Eight Keys to Recovery from an eating disorder book. That's like the Bible of eating disorder recovery. But then a newer, not a newer one, but recently, like a year or so ago, I bought Tabitha Farrar's book, Rewrite. rewire rehabilitate recover and that was life-changing for me with my recovery because that book was just so brutally honest blunt scientific and just here are the facts this is what you need to do do it this is what's going to happen when you do it here's how you navigate that and then here's what you do next and it was really like eye-opening like for example like one something she talks about is And her experience, one of her behaviors that she did was even when she was restricting, she would hoard food. She would go to the grocery store and grocery shop like normally. And then the food would be put away and she would rearrange it and then throw it away. But then she talks about how when you go back to like ancient times, there's like studies that show, what's the word for like hunters and gatherers? They like travel nomads. Is it nomads? I don't know the word. But when you used to hunt for your food, when you're in scarcity from food, your body naturally wants to keep moving to find food. So there comes your compulsive exercise if that was something you dealt with. So she talks about how these are not really new things. It's just kind of like reframed. So if you haven't read it, read it. Because I was like mind blown.

SPEAKER_03: 43:22

I love when a book has... will change you like that. So I think it just reemphasizes the importance of books too. What's the name of it?

SPEAKER_01: 43:31

Rewire, Rehabilitate, Recover. It's those three words. I might have them in the wrong order, but it's those. If you look it up, it'll come right up. Just make sure that you get the second edition.

SPEAKER_03: 43:43

Okay. Okay. Amazing.

SPEAKER_01: 43:45

Yeah, it's great. Medications was a lot of feedback that I got too. Not that there's any specific medication for like eating disorders in general, but I got three or four responses of not being afraid to, just because there's a lot of stigma with pharmaceuticals in the world, but not being afraid to take advantage of that tool in your recovery, which I think is huge because if you're battling an eating disorder, 10 times out of 10 comes anxiety, comes depression. So if you take an extra few things out of the mix, even if it has to be medication, that can only help you move forward with your recovery. Not that I'm advocating for that if you are against it, but just something to consider. I

SPEAKER_03: 44:33

agree. I think I used to be anti-meds just coming from a personal experience, but I've completely changed my thoughts on that. If medication can help you, you should absolutely be evaluating that with your doctor as something to try out. I mean, I have done a lot of tests in the day when I was struggling with my eating disorder. And I always noticed, going back to tracking my period, that my eating disorder symptoms used to flare up when I was PMSing. And so I got my hormones tested. I was on a hormone supplement for a while. So I'm all for exploring different things, even if it's not medication specifically, but supplements that you can take to make yourself feel better. I mean... western medicine can be so demonized but like why not use it to our advantage

SPEAKER_00: 45:30

yeah I think we we need a blend of western and eastern medicine definitely

SPEAKER_01: 45:35

um A question that I got, this isn't a question I asked, this was kind of submitted as kind of a question, point of view, perspective. Someone said, so this person is recovered, but they struggle with a knee disorder, they went to formal treatment, and they said that it infuriates them that during treatment, during recovery, just in general, that numbers don't matter, weight doesn't matter, none of that matters, but progress in recovery, they still use like the professionals at the treatment centers or programs still use weight in numbers in a lot of ways to measure your progress and recovery. And I can agree with that because that was my experience when I went to treatment. I remember literally word for word, my clinician had said to me, okay, so we're going to talk about next steps because you've met your weight goal. Insurance isn't going to cover it for much longer. So what are your, just from your experience, Yeah, well, I think

SPEAKER_00: 46:50

that with my clients, you know, because I don't, all of my clients typically have a dietitian or a therapist and they definitely have some sort of like weight monitoring system. We don't really talk about weight, you know, or like weight updates, anything like that. So I, I don't know if it's something that you've ever discussed with anyone. I thankfully don't have to have like a lot of those conversations that doctors, dietitians have to have. So my perspective is fully more spiritual, you know, like how can we expand your life? How can we stop talking about weight or stop focusing on your body so much? And what can we think about, you know, what does your future dream recovered life look like? That's always kind of my perspective. I always try to guide the conversation away from weight, away from body into something much bigger and greater than ourselves. What's our purpose?

SPEAKER_03: 47:39

Agreed. I also think this is unfortunately extremely outdated. I think that eating disorder research is still, in the grand scheme of things, relatively new. I mean, people weren't really talking about eating disorders even 20 years ago, right? And so research that we're doing on eating disorders now I think is just exponentially growing. But I did actually interview... director at the Eating Disorder Foundation, which is where my support group is. And she and a few other members of the foundation worked in Colorado with legislators to actually fight some of this that's going on. So this whole insurance will only cover you up to a certain BMI is crazy. It's so outdated because we know that the statistics say, is it 6% of people are are technically considered underweight who report to have an eating disorder, it's just not going to work with the laws that we have in place right now with the way insurance covers us. So I think... Frustrating and hard, like we have to go to the courts to like plead our cases for this. But, you know, I think we have trailblazers who are doing that and it's going to be maybe a long path forward. But people are truly fighting this now and recognizing that rules around insurers and weight and specific numbers needs to change. But again, I think bottom line is it is absolutely infuriating and it's just everyone's probably in a tough position right now.

SPEAKER_01: 49:21

yeah for sure all right anything else you want to add I

SPEAKER_00: 49:26

think almost I can add to that last bit for anyone struggling as well and just say that you know if you're deemed quote-unquote normal weight and you're you're struggling a lot your struggle is valid and know that that all of us understand that that you don't need to be underweight to be struggling and a lot of times as you just shared with that statistic Amy it's it's not always the case

SPEAKER_01: 49:51

there are a lot people go ahead amy

SPEAKER_03: 49:55

no you go ahead

SPEAKER_01: 49:56

i was just gonna say that a lot of like the statistics show that most people who have who struggle with restrictive eating disorders they're not all underweight i mean when i relapsed like i don't know i'm bad at math five years ago let's say i pulled a normal i don't know what my weight was but i looked pretty okay i was able to fake it that way for a very long time. And that doesn't mean that I wasn't struggling. I was probably struggling at the same part of when I was at rock bottom when I was noticeable. So I just think that the whole weight stuff with do you get treatment? Are you discharged? Are you accepted? It just has to go. I

SPEAKER_03: 50:43

think that that actually is like a good way to wrap it is just to reemphasize the point like eating disorders don't discriminate based on like what you look like or how much you weigh or how much you make or you know what the color of your skin is or if you're a male or a female like eating disorders can impact anyone and I think it's just so important to be able to connect with your community and connect with others and hear about others lived experiences because I think it gives hope and I think that's what you know the purpose of what I'm trying to do and I know what you guys are trying to do is too and and I just think that it's important that people keep speaking up up.

SPEAKER_01: 51:22

Yeah. If I learned anything in my recovery, I learned a lot of things, but probably the number one thing is that just talking about it helps more than I thought it would. So it's definitely going to probably help more than anyone else thinks it would. It's very freeing. It takes a weight off your shoulders and you don't have to spend that energy being secretive anymore. So that's one free resource in a way. Yeah, I agree. I All right. Well, this was fun. We did it. No scripts.

SPEAKER_00: 51:58

That's the pod. Look at us go. All right. Happy Friday. Happy Friday, guys. This was fun. I like doing it off the cuff, like whatever. Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 52:11

I'm glad that you guys pulled through and wanted to do it. That's exciting. Always. Always. All right. Any last words, Mary? I'm putting you on the spot. Words of wisdom? Yeah, words of

SPEAKER_00: 52:25

wisdom. Oh, God. Well, I want it to be good, so now I'm thinking about it. Okay, you know what my word of wisdom is? I was on Pinterest scrolling last night for so long. I think I'm getting back into my Pinterest vision boarding scroll right now. And I posted this on my story, but the quote was like, your calling won't stop calling. And I love that. And I've been thinking about it all day. So there's been something on your mind that you want to do or need to do. It's not going to leave you until you do it. That's my word of wisdom.

SPEAKER_03: 53:00

And that could be recovery for you if you're listening to this. I would say that like the free resource you just said with like kind of telling on your eating disorder, I guess I'll just leave you guys with eating disorders thrive in secrecy. Don't keep your eating disorder a secret. If you let it pent up in your head without letting it out, like it's going to grow and grow. So as soon as you tell on the eating disorder, it's not going to like that. It's going to get smaller.

SPEAKER_01: 53:27

And that's a perfect place to end. Amy really nailed it with that last bit of advice and I couldn't agree more. Thank you for tuning in and maybe we'll do this again soon. Thank you so much for joining me for this episode of Bite by Bite. I'm so grateful to be able to share this space with you, and I hope today's conversation brought you some insight, comfort, or maybe even a sense of community. Remember, no matter what you're healing from, healing isn't perfect, and every step you take does matter. If you enjoyed this episode, consider sharing it with someone who might need it, leaving a review or subscribing on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So you never miss an episode. And if you want to connect more, you can find me on Instagram at Bite by Bite Recovery. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Your stories are just to say hi. Until next time, let's keep taking life by bite. See you later.